Interview with Tod Nielson

Back in February while Tsherin was away on retreat, I started some interviews with other fellow student thangka painters. I was stuck on my current thangka painting without Tsherin's assistance, so I figured I would work on the interview project for a bit. It was initially inspired by Buddhist Geeks announcement that they will be taking articles from their website from listeners. I thought it would be great to share some of the wonderful experiences of thangka students. Here is the first interview with student Tod Nielson. Tod was one of the first students to study under Tsherin when he arrived in California. Enjoy!


PF: Do you remember when and where you first encountered a thangka painting? looking back do you think it was a factory painting?

TN: Hmmm.. I think I first saw them in books, but the first time I saw them "in person" was at Tse Chen Ling when I started taking classes there. That was some time ago - I think the mid 1990s. I'm pretty sure they were high-quality thangkas.

PF: what aspects initially attracted you?

TN: The initial attraction was an artistic one - color, composition, details. But when I started learning which deities and events were being depicted, and why, they became all the more interesting. Actually, both my parents died in the winter of 96/97 (?), and I decided to commission a thangka of "The Buddha Descending from the Heaven of the 33 Gods" - because it deals with filial piety - in their honor. But I didn't know any thangka painters. That Christmas, Tse Chen Ling was having a "Winter Fair", and I met Tsherin at that time. He was helping a friend of his sell jewelry. I mentioned my wish, and he agreed to do the thangka for me! I really liked the final product! We had it "framed" in brocade.


PF: What made you decide to take a thangka painting class? How did you initially hear about it?

TN: Tsherin and I became good friends, so when he started teaching classes, it was natural that I join in, even though the last time I took art was in High School, (a long time ago!). We (the other students and I) had a lot of fun, plus the painting itself teaches patience and concentration - not to mention the gaining of merit. Anyway, I was sad when I retired and moved, because there are no classes like that here in Lake Geneva, WI! But of course, I still see Tsherin occasionally when I go there or he comes here.

PF: You mentioned that the painting practice helped teach patience and concentration. How else has this practice changed your relationship with the dharma?

TN: Painting thangkas has helped me to appreciate the width and depth of the dharma. It's a different approach from the purely intellectual and/or experiential. It's visual - as in "visualization meditation." And of course, it's a perfect vehicle for expressing one's devotion.

PF: Like you were saying, we don't initially know all the iconography and specific aspects of a deity when we begin painting it. For me, I've now painted Green Tara three times. Two when I was just starting out around 2001 and one just recently. This time around, I felt more confident and had more knowledge thus a different energy became embodied in the painting. Could you tell me more about the experiences you've had as you get to know a specific deity?

TN: Hmm.. Well, discovering what all the accoutrements and settings of the Dieties represent does encourage one to do a bit of research! And being able to understand them, and explain them to fellow practitioners is gratifying. A good example is the (almost always) depicted "Offerings of the Five Senses." Who knew?

PF: We have many obstacles in the west to painting thangkas. Be it work, time, money, etc. Now you are half way across the united states. What problems did you encounter with taking up this practice in the modern world?

TN: There are not many problems, if one has a good teacher, and the support of fellow students. But the lack of them is certainly a detriment to continuing painting! If I have a question, I have to scour my old notes... not always helpful. But I've been branching out to non-religious art, too, so that's good.

PF: So, I guess my next questions are how things have changed since being away from Tsherin's instruction. For me, this past month has been a challenge with him gone on his vermont art retreat. When present, he can easily fix some aspect of the drawing that i've been struggling on in just a few seconds of demonstration. Have you tried a new thangka painting since moving away?

TN: I'm still working on the (simple) one I was when I moved! Also, I've done some grid/pencil line drawings - including an Amityus that I really like. Now that I'm in school full-time, [I'm getting a degree in Hotel/Hospitality Management], I haven't had a lot of time to paint lately.

PF: What other styles of painting [you mentioned non-religious] have you been working in? Have you found yourself using techniques from thangka painting when you are working outside the iconography?

TN: Right after I moved, I enrolled in a watercolor class here. That was a disaster, because watercolors are about as "opposite" from thangka painting as you can get. I kept feeling "sloppy" as I tried to paint landscapes, flowers, etc. in watercolors. I felt I should be paying attention to the details - which is virtually impossible in watercolors.

PF: Has any of your accumulated knowledge of thangka painting been passed on to your new sangha? When at buddhist centers, I always find myself explaining aspects of their thangkas while we are on break from dharma talk.

TN: Right now, I am affiliated with a Theravadan group, lead by Sri Lankan Monks and Nuns. But they (and the other practitioners) are very open to learning about all Buddhist art. Once a month, I bring a thangka or statues to the Meditation session, and explain the meaning of the deity, implements, and other aspects of the piece, and also the techniques used to paint or scupt the sacred object. Everyone is always very curious and impressed.

PF: Our teacher, Tsherin, was away for a few years in Nepal while trying to return to America. During that time both Elaine and you still continued to hold classes at Tsa Tsa Studio. Could you tell us a little bit about that experience?

TN: The classes were held at the "Tsa Tsa Studio," which is affiliated with Tse Chen Ling. The building was really decrepit, and the owners were renovating the flat above us - VERY slowly. The place was infested with fleas, windows were broken, and the restroom was a disgrace. All in all, very interesting! Most of the time, it was just Elaine and me supporting each other in our endeavors, although some interesting people showed up occasionally. I can't speak for Elaine, but I really didn't feel qualified to "teach" anyone, be I could encourage them, and answer a few questions.

PF: What other ways do you think the new generation of thangka students can help preserve the tradition?

TN: One thing I noticed about the Dharma centers I've gone to is that "Buddhist Art" per se is not really discussed or taught. I think that if some well informed individuals were to take up that task, it would help - not just Tibetan art, but all Buddhist art.

PF: Any final thoughts you would like to add?

TN: No final thoughts - only that painting thangkas has been a joyous and gratifying experience for me. I'll attach some paintings I've done. (For some reason, my camera makes everything look rather garish)

Background Sketch

I transferred the inked deity image over to my final canvas and redrew enough detail to start painting that section. First though, I'm sketching in the background for the painting. I finished the small flowers on branches surround the body aura. This week I've been practicing the larger flowers before adding them to the painting. Next week will be clouds and rainbows!

White Tara Inked

The past two months have been a little slow with Tsherin gone on his Vermont artist retreat. I've found a new "habit" for when I get stuck on a painting. I randomly open up Robert Beer's "Encyclopedia of Tibetan Symbols and Motifs" then copy something from the page. The process seems to help get me started since I don't get as intimidated from the smaller drawings. You lose the feeling that you'll mess up the next step on something that is larger. It's a good practice.

I finished inking my White Tara. Even though my line work has a long way to go, I've noticed myself getting more comfortable with the brush. My hand turns automatically on curves where before I usually had to over think everything. I'm beginning to enjoy the process.

This past week I transferred the inked image onto a larger watercolor paper. That process was daunting. I've never used heavy weight watercolor paper in such a large format before. The paper had a tendency to want to buckle and remain rolled up. I ended up having to improvise so i used an iron with steam to get it to stay. If anyone has a better method of "stretching" watercolor paper please let me know. After cutting and pressing, I ended up with a 24" by 28" piece of paper on a larger backing board.

We use carbon paper to transfer the inked image over to the final paper. This process reminds me of those blind contour drawings that one is forced to do in early drawing courses. Even though you are working with a good image, the end result never looks right. You always have to spend a bunch of time cleaning up the final image again after you perfected it once already. A tribute to impermanence!

Pata Practice

This week I've been practicing "Patas." Pata is translated as leaf. The spirals are dazzling to the eye when done correctly. The process starts out with one hook then you build counterpoints to that main spiral. After that, it's kind of like connecting the dots while maintaining a harmonious width.

Tsherin told me that if you look closely at well done patas you will notice that none of them look alike. If you only do a "stencil" then they look stiff. In order to trick the eye into seeing them as continuous, one must alter each section individually.

Soon, I'll begin drawing the patas in the outer portion of the body aura. I've also begun finalizing the lines on the sketch before the inking process

The Pata practice has peaked my interest into other forms of ornamentation. I hope to pick up a history of ornamentation book from the library soon.

Attainment Mind

The initial sketch for White Tara is nearing completion. Since Tsherin is leaving shortly for his two month art retreat, my "attainment" mind sometimes wants to rush ahead to get the basic layout done. I need to keep that aspect of myself in check. And I only have two weeks left before he leaves.

Lately I've been increasing my daily meditation time towards two hours. This amount is the commitment required for a ten year buddhist retreat that I applied for. This practice has helped in slowing down my drawing process. As you slow down, the subtle curving of lines come into your awareness. It's amazing how much we never see since we always try to rush ahead!

I've accomplished quite a lot already on this project. In comparing this White Tara to the one done in 2000, I've come a long way. I'm curious what changes will occur in another ten years going down this path. I can only hope that each new painting will bring forth a better vessel for the deity's energy to inhabit.

The Grid System

The underlying skeleton to thangka painting is the grid system. The lines help define how the body is to be positioned. Thus having a master's grid will achieve more than lots of decorations that tempt the eye. If the grid is poor, then the beauty is corrupted thus not making as suitable a home for the deity's energy to inhabit.

The grid for the White Tara that I'm currently working on comes from the personal artist to the previous Panchen Lama. A compilation of his grid systems were put together in a book for future students. Tsherin's father gave him a copy the last time he was in Nepal.

Tsherin is having me look at other reference books to see the differences between this grid and other grid systems used for White Tara. This tradition is a subtle way to train the apprentice's eye. After staring at these other paintings, I'm beginning to see slight variations. Even though the line work and everything else seems perfect, if the underlying grid isn't good then the deity will look stiff. Once you see this flaw, one's mind wants to give the deity a yoga adjustment for correction.

The below picture was taken when I had just completed the initial body sketch. The previous Green Tara that I created, helped me to see the underlying body much easier. The complex New Mendri style clothing used in this grid is more challenging than I've ever done. At some points the body lines were hard to find, since so much flesh is covered up. The process has become like combining sculpture with drawing. I'm refining the most minute details of the line trying to find the perfect harmony.

The older Mendri style is what Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche asked Tsherin to preserve. Since it has closer ties to Indian and Nepalese art, many Tibetans don't consider it as pure. However, the Mendri style has less ornamentation for the eye to catch on. This style may be easier to use to practice visualization rather than letting the mind wander therefore it is of great importance to maintain.

The Red Tara in my series will be done in Mendri style. I hope that having just done a complex New Mendri style White Tara, I will be able to have fresh in my mind the changes between the two.

Acceptance

Six months have past since I mailed in my application. I had almost forgotten about the energy of last springtime when the garden was in bloom. The rains have arrived along with what is considered cold weather for us Bay Area folk. Along with that arrival, came our acceptance form. Tsherin received his paperwork a day ahead of mine so he rang me up to share the good news.

The idea of being accepted into the master/apprentice program took a few days to sink in. At first, I felt strange telling my friends and family since it seemed somehow like a dream. My friend Linda Jo said that I'm the first of her artist friends that has received anything like this "grant". Congratulations and much support came from all around. People were asking what I might need help with in the coming year.

The paperwork was pretty straight forward consisting mostly of release forms for use of our images and words. Tsherin had some extra tax paperwork since he will be in control of the funds.

 Sherwood Chen from ACTA made himself available to us at a place of our choosing to go over the program as well as our goals. We met up with him the following monday at World Grounds cafe for about ninety minutes. This "interview" formalized our goals while we had the opportunity to share more about the practice and history of thangka painting. Other than this initial meeting, we have more documentation at the halfway point as well as during our show/talk next December. Since Sherwood lives close by to us, he might stop by the studio earlier to see how we are doing. Overall, I feel very comfortable about the program once Sherwood shared some of the goals on their end which mainly consist of preserving California traditions and documenting the master/apprentice relationship. Their goal isn't so much on the end results but more about the journey.

Since the letter's arrival two weeks ago, it's begun to set in that I have been awarded a great opportunity to deepen my relationship with Tsherin as well as this sacred art form next year. One of my personal goals is to document my process every week within the blog to see what happens over the course of 2010. This writing will also help provide more documentation for the Alliance for California Traditional Art's archives.

I hope that this site acts as a beckon to other Thangka students so that we can begin a dialogue about the next generation of painters. I've found that many of us work in isolation without knowing about each other or sharing our common experiences. The available technology properly used can make us become more connected.